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    • CommentAuthorGustavs
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2005
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    Hey, I'm new to freelance jobs, so I wanted to ask about how much should I ask for a web page like this? It also has a simple admin panel where you can edit the biography content text.

    http://www.authorized.lv/Saa-T/
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    I was going to give you a link because I bookmarked something off the del.icio.us popular list recently pertaining to freelance rates, but:

    "del.icio.us is down for emergency maintenance. we'll be back as soon possible."

    Damn Yahoo buyout...

    Anyway - here's some quick advice.

    Decide how much you want to earn per hour. (I'm going to use dollars because that's what they pay me.) If you want to earn about $50,000 per year that equates to roughly $25/hour (if you're designing for 40 hours every week with no vacation time).

    But wait... here in the good old U.S. of A. the government will want at least one-third of that money, so you'd better add 33% to that hourly rate. Now we're at just over $33 an hour.

    That rate doesn't account for any of your overhead costs, i.e., how much it costs you to operate: computers, monitors, software, Internet connection, desk, paper, pens, office, etc. Let's say you'll be working from home so you don't have to rent an office, so you're annual overhead might be in the range of an additional $4000. Add some profit into your equation, as well as some money for health insurance, vacation time, etc., and we'll go ahead and settle for a nice round number: $50/hour. Not a bad figure for someone just starting out.

    Now that you've got an hourly rate, you need to look at a project objectively; decide how long it will take you to finish the job. I don't know how quickly or slowly you work so you'll have to judge how long it would take you to design and program the site. Give yourself a bit of a cusion in case you run into unexpected problems (and you will). So if you think it will take you about 40 hours (that's one full work week) to do the site, multiply that by your hourly rate and you end up with a total projected cost of $2000.

    These numbers are all arbitrary and my math skills suck, but that should give you a good base to work from.
    • CommentAuthorArun
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005 edited
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    *comment deleted by droppyale*

    arun please be more careful with your replies, he is looking for advice on pricing.

    It's a little inappropiate to suggest your services.
    • CommentAuthorArun
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005
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    I really Sorry Alex.
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      CommentAuthormringlein
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005
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    I suggest starting by first checking out the competition. You need to price yourself at what you think you are worth but also at the rate that will win you the bid. I am assuming you are primarily working with local clients -- so check out the local competition. If you are working with larger clients that are not necessarily local. You might want to start networking and get your hands on some RFPs and see what the proposals are pricing at.
    • CommentAuthorsc18
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005
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    Bid rate should be competitive and should also be beneficial to the designer. $10 to 15 per hour may be an admissible rate.
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      CommentAuthornifkin
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005
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    If you're bidding $10-15/hour all you're doing is undercutting and screwing the people who do this for a living.
    • CommentAuthorGustavs
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2005
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    You see, I'm not a fulltime-freelance I mostly do it for the fun, but the bonus is the money.

    mringlein, whats a RFP?
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      CommentAuthordroppyale
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2005
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    RFP = Request for Proposal
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      CommentAuthoradjustafresh
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2005 edited
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    $10 to $15 an hour is not competitive, it's ridiculous.

    Perhaps I should refer you to my side project: http://minimumwageweb.com/
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      CommentAuthormringlein
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2005
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    Speaking from the US, $20 - $25/hour is a good rate when you are starting out. If you have an impressive portfolio with some high profile clients you should be in the $35/hour to $65/hour range.

    However! None of us should worry too much about the guys offering $10-$15/hour services. You dont want those clients; most clients realize you get what you pay for. And sometimes too cheap is not a good thing. The client needs to know there is some value in your service. I know many clients who won't accept bids that are too low.You are not worried about templatemonster.com taking our jobs right? So dont be worried about the $10-$15/hour guys, most of their stuff is from Template Monster anyway.

    If you are good, charge what you are worth. If you are a young highschool kid doing this more as a hobby; then charge whatever you can to get the bid, build your portfolio and customer base. Many students do this work for free just to get exposure -- we will never stop that sort of undercutting.
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      CommentAuthorSpookyET
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2005
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    How about not charging per hour, but per project. If you tell someone that it would could $2000, they'll think it's resonable. If you tell them $50/hour, they'll faint or throw you out of their office.
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      CommentAuthormringlein
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2005
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    I agree with Spooky! I love to charge per project.

    However, most of my clients request an hourly rate before sending me the RFP. So I typically try and eye ball the project and make up a number that I assume will come out to equal what I think the project should pay.
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      CommentAuthorJohnRiv
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2005 edited
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    I go for hourly rates whenever possible because clients usually end up wanting extra features that they come up with during the process, and I find it easier to say "that will add XX hours to the original estimate" instead of "that will add $XXX.XX to the original price." Hourly rates give you the extra cushion of providing an estimate, while a project price is usually a set price that you quote and doesn't change unless the original specs change, and then you have to negotiate a new price quote.

    Most importantly (for me), charging by the hour shows the client that my time is valuable, no matter what work I'm doing (be it designing, coding, configuring blog software, hand typing text from a fax, etc.) or what client I'm doing it for.
    • CommentAuthormightydave
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2005
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    I live in the Midwest US - cost of living here is very reasonable. My rate is $75/hour. I've never had a client balk at the price. Never.

    A big part of being a freelance developer, either full or part-time, is having confidence in your abilities. Without confidence, you end up charging $15 an hour. In my opinion, that's an unacceptable rate. You are basically telling your client that you aren't worth anything. The $15 you make in that hour gets divided up so many ways, you end up making nothing.

    But I also agree it's important to give a project price or goal price. I generally lay out each project piece by piece, so the client knows how much is going toward each aspect. No surprises that way.
  2.  permalink

    I'm relatively new to pricing process as well. Since I'm a high school student, I'm not too worried, and tend to charge whatever'll make me some nifty pocket money.

    I am, to some extent, a freelancer, but I certainly don't have confidence in my abilities -- at least not as it comes to design. Luckily, any money I do make in this field is pretty much just mine, which is nice. I imagine if I were doing this anywhere close to full time I would charge $50/hour, provided I had sharpened up my design skills.

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      CommentAuthormringlein
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2005
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    clandestine -- sounds like you are doing everything right. Charge what you need to for now and when you do become more confident, start to charge more and then get to that $75/hour rate. I couldnt make more than $6/hour at our local gym when I was in highschool. You are so far ahead of the crowd now, money shouldnt influence you -- build your skills and portfolio. Some are angry at people for charging too little; I say we should be afaird of the highschool kids that are putting out amazing stuff -- I come across amazing portfolios all the time of kids who can barely drive.
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      CommentAuthornifkin
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2005
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    • CommentAuthorartcore
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2006
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    since i am from a third world country, we(freelancers) don't have the luxury to ask for such prices. basically we base our rate per project. 500 dollars per proj. it's no wonder a lot of opportunistic capitalist scum take advantage of our situation...such is life. :p
    • CommentAuthorDunk Ra
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2006
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    We've hired 2 freelancers in recent months in London, UK.

    Both charged £250 a day but we got the following after negotiating:

    A freelance web designer for £200 per day
    A freelance web builder (CSS + HTML standards based) £220

    Both were excellent and I'd use them again.
  3.  permalink
    I'd say $65/hour is a good rate for quality work. I don't like to do hourly projects, I prefer to give project based estimates. I use $65 an hour to come up with an estimated flat rate. If the scope of the project changes along the way, then I make sure the client is aware and I write up an addendum to the original estimate and get the client to sign it. I find this works great for one-offs, but lately I've been trying to setup some retainer clients, where they would purchase a set amount of hours a month. For this I'd be willing to give a discount on my rates.
  4.  permalink
    I agree with the $50-$75 / hour rates suggested though I tend to offer pricing per page etc - having been in sales and business for over 12 years I can agree with my clients that a fixed - product based price is preferable as they know where they stand.

    We are based in Australia and charge about $350 for first page and $200 for further pages though this is for purely static pages. We have charged this since we started and have no major problems selling sites - and we make sure they are good sites.

    Ignore the $10-$15 idiots, they are wasting ours and their clients' time. I get so sick and tired of educating clients on standards etc to get them come back with quotes from clowns using really bad CMS to churn out garbage sites for $1000.

    A thing to remember - if you start out cheap, thats where you will stay. Work on quality and the business will come.
    • CommentAuthordscrivner
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2006
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    I'm currently in the same situation Gustavs - I do web and graphic design projects on the side with my brother. Here's my advice: Charge per project and not per hour. Most clients (at least the ones I've worked with) don't want to be charged by the hour and worry about the end bill being a few $100 or $1,000 more than the quote you provided them becuase you decided to "work over" or "add some final touches". You'll probably score more jobs that way!

    Some other notes:

    *Come up with a "Client Services Agreement" that lays out the terms and guidelines for projects, what happens when things are added, what happens when payments are late, etc. A great one can be found here: http://www.fortymedia.com/special/csa.pdf. You mayalso like to check out: http://www.startingsmall.info - a great min-site from this year's SXSW.

    *At the beginning of each project I personally request a 50% deposit and ask that the client sends over a signed copy of the final proposal and of my client services agreement. Once signed, anything added on to the project is billed separately, on it's own timeline and must be approved for addition and cost by the client before officially adding it into the project.

    *One other great reason to bill by the project and not by the hour is so you have a solid idea of exactly what you're going to be making for one project or another over a period of time. Want to make $2,000/month on the side next month? Score enough projects that add up to $2,000 that are scheduled for completion within that month.

    *Finally, check out other web designs websites and see what they're charging. A lot post price ranges and timelines directly on their websites. Don't be afraid to ask for a premium if you're good enough with design and client relationships. I personally want to be compensated excellently and do excellent client work - so I price and pick projects accordingly. Don't work for clients that don't value the work you do or the prices you charge - they will take advantage of you, delay payments, and treat you like a minimum wage employee. Instead, work only with informed clients that are respectful of your work and your profession.

    I hope that helps!
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      CommentAuthorquech
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2006
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    can anyone give me some info on usual hourly rates in Ireland (web design)?
    • CommentAuthorjrutter
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2006
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    I agree, those who give the lowball numbers of $10-15 looking for a designer are usually the clients which you definitely dont want to work for. They end up trying to squeeze so much out of you for such a little cost, and the work ends up being non-reflective of your abilities.
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      CommentAuthormaspick
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2006
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    Gustavs -

    Count me in with the per project group. We've found that makes the most sense with the locals we deal with who prefer to know up front what they're getting into instead of seeing an estimate and hoping it doesn't go over. Those that balk at the price have often discovered they paid more to the hourly developer who ended up going over to accommodate change requests.

    That's my 2 cents. :^{>
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      CommentAuthorJohnRiv
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2006
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    Blue Flavor published a great article last night about Pricing a Project:

    http://www.blueflavor.com/ed/tips_tricks/pricing_a_project.php

    Definitely worth checking out
    • CommentAuthorqweqwe30
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2006
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    There are many skilled webdesigners in Poland that work for $ 5-7 (15-21 zł, take-home pay). Links upon request.
    • CommentAuthorordon
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2006 edited
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    Rule number one:
    webwhore != webdesigner
    • CommentAuthorffreak
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2006
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    ezapaz: Silence is golden, especially when you know nothing about topic...
    Earnings of skilled webdesigners in Poland _starts_ from about 6 times higher rate then you wrote and can go much higher (and I hope we are talking about rate per hour). You are talking about kids and amateurs, that can paint pretty nice picture in PS and call it a webdesign.
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